19 Replies Latest reply on 24-Jan-2018 11:42 PM by daylaur

    Week One: Question #1

    teachontario.team

      Comment on any ideas that emerge for you based on her above distinctions laid out in chart form.

        • Re: Week One: Question #1

          McCallum says feedback as a process involves mindsets that help students learn. I agree with her; I want to help teach my students recognize that struggling is a natural part of learning. I also want them to see the learning they have done. Sometimes my students only identify the things they cannot do, instead of the many things they can. She makes a comment on page 15, “descriptive feedback is most effective when given alone, without a grade or praise.” I wonder if, following an assessment, my students would benefit more from a piece of descriptive feedback, without a level? Worth a shot.

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            • Re: Week One: Question #1
              dmccallum

              Hi Becky,

              It is great that you brought up that point of inquiry here for your practice- in fact, research does demonstrate that feedback given alone is much more powerful than feedback given with a grade. Once that level or grade is seen, nothing else matters. Thank you for highlighting this. I know that we need to give final report card grades, but single point rubrics have been instrumental for me to drive this home:)

              I hope you give it a try and share your learning about that with us!

              Deb:)

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            • Re: Week One: Question #1
              mcgrathm

              I love that I am learning something already- I have just converted a checklist(co-created success criteria of course) (because I find rubrics unwieldy sometimes- too many words!!!)  to a single point rubric and I love it! Here it is:

              I think the visual of strengths and weaknesses balancing each other is really effective. This is simple and I think would be effective with my students- I will let you know!

              4 of 4 people found this helpful
                • Re: Week One: Question #1
                  aking

                  I really like how you put concerns on the left and areas of success on the right.  It's going to take me some adjustment to not put marks on these rubrics as an English teacher, but as a teacher-librarian I often needs something like this to provide diagnostic assessment or formative assessment when I'm collaborating with a class.

                    • Re: Week One: Question #1

                      I agree that as an English teacher no marks feels crazy- if not impossible- but I'm thinking more about what Becky was talking about. I would love to give this feedback back first, have them reflect and then give the grade.  Ideally if time allowed, they could make edits perhaps, and eventually work toward a summative grade...maybe fewer assessment pieces concentrated on for longer?

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                    • Re: Week One: Question #1
                      skritzer

                      I also really like the idea of having descriptive feedback spaces for concerns and areas of success. I think these would be particularly effective for assessment for and as learning.

                      • Re: Week One: Question #1
                        dianamali

                        Maureen,

                        Thank you for providing that example! I read about single-point rubric and I had no clue what exactly they meant. Your sample makes it very clear. (I haven't read to the parts where Deb gives her templates yet.)

                        This also gives me a "yes, you are doing something right". My Grade 1-3 media students and I were using Chatter Pix and each class created a tip guide for each section (e.g. taking the photo / drawing the mouth / recording the voice / writing words). Unfortunately, some of the students had already made their Chatter Pix before these were made (and actually, they wouldn't have been able to make them without the initial experience of making their own Chatter Pix). I know that I used those charts when marking their submissions and some of the students who were behind in creating them used them as well. I think the onus is on me to return to Chatter Pix as a tool so that the descriptive feedback they received from their peers isn't just a one-time event. Someone remind me to take a photo of the Chatter Pix charts so I can share them here!

                        Diana

                      • Re: Week One: Question #1
                        aking

                        Putting on my elearning teacher lens for a minute, I'm troubled by something.  The big difference I see between the two columns of principle vs. process is the need for collaboration.  I feel that in the online classroom I work doubly hard to make connections with my students and I think that I succeed.  Yet the collaboration between students in an online world is very artificial, so much so that I'm not forcing it anymore and instead doubling my efforts to make my connections with the students stronger.  I did a research project last year with 3 other teachers thanks to an OTF TLC grant about engagement in online classrooms.  Through a rigorous survey of student and teachers in multiple boards, we found that the number one aspect that makes an online learning experience successful is the relationship with the teacher, largely through feedback on learning.  I'm going to need a work around for the collaboration parts of the process column.  Hmmm.

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                          • Re: Week One: Question #1
                            kit

                            Alanna, this is a really interesting and important area of learning. As we do more of our learning online, how do we build connections between and among learners. I was just at a meeting this morning and the stat presented was that our learning is made up of 10% formal learning, 70% experiential learning, and 20% social learning (the source apparently came from 70:20:10 Forum: Supporting Organisational Development & Learning | 70:20:10 Forum) Now I can't attest to the veracity of the research because I haven't read it myself, but it does lead to the question  - how can we embed social learning into online environments, and is it necessary to do so?

                              • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                aking

                                About 8 years ago, I co-wrote the online version of ENG3C for the Ministry of Ed. and we were encouraged to write in LOTS of opportunity for social interaction: discussions, co-creation, even group collaboration. I've been really interested in the same question you ask.  I would call this encouraging 'participatory culture' in digital spaces.  And yet this great book I read a few years ago Book Club: It's Complicated: The Social Lives of Networked Teens by danah boyd says that online communities are really unique because they help people who feel marginalized to find each other.  Maybe learning in an online environment is an entirely different beast.

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                              • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                elexus

                                Alanna,

                                    I have participated in a four online AQ courses and during my last two - Math and Technology - we did projects together with our classmates. I agree that I prefer the social aspect of a classroom environment after recently completing Math Part 2 in a typical classroom setting. I think that we do the online courses as for convenience, but with Google Hangout, Skype and host of other online avenues to interact with classmates. I enjoyed the feedback and interaction I received from my teacher who led the courses, but I also enjoyed having the connection and ability to work with seasoned teachers and to learn from them by doing these group tasks. I think the effort you put into making that connection is commendable and I am sure your students appreciate it. Finding time to coordinate online to do assignments together can be difficult, but at least there is the luxury of being stationary while still being connected and finding something that works for everyone. Enjoyed reading your thoughts on this topic. Thank you for your insight.

                                  • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                    aking

                                    Hi Alexis,

                                    Thanks for your thoughts!  I often wonder if the collaboration tasks are just beyond the motivation level of my ENG4C students.  I usually get about 4 students of 27 who want to be chatty and connected to each other.  Motivated adult learning online is so very different than with high school students.  I too did my 10 course M.Ed. completely online and I would say just 3 out of 10 of those courses were awesome in terms of their digital pedagogy.  The work that needs to be done still gets me up in the morning!

                                • Re: Week One: Question #1

                                  What I like about the feedback process, as opposed to feedback as a principle, is that it is organic. Within the feedback process, conversations are always moving back to the learning goals and take into account learning behaviours. The feedback is immediate and occurs throughout learning, not just at one check-in point or at the culmination of an activity/task/project, etc.

                                    • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                      leah.kearney

                                      Hi Anna, I was thinking the same thing. While it is important to have built-in checkpoints, there needs to be ongoing opportunities for students to engage in the process. I am really interested in classroom culture and  wonder about the norms and rituals that have to be in place for classrooms like this to flourish.

                                    • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                      kit

                                      I was stuck on the bullet point of "guides students to favourable outcomes". My first thought was "wait - isn't that what we want? Why is this on the "bad side" of the chart .  So I chewed away on that for a bit. First I think that many educators would not see difficulty with this goal - they would say "of course we want students to get to where we want them". Perhaps that is where the difficulty lies - we have a path in mind for the student to follow and a destination is already determined. Let's take a step back and consider with the learner not only their pathway but their desired outcome, and then support them through collaborative feedback to reach their self-determined goal.

                                       

                                      Is that too lofty for "I want my students to be able to solve multi-step rich math tasks"? 

                                       

                                      Still thinking.

                                       

                                      Kit

                                        • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                          mcgrathm

                                          Not too lofty at all I think!! It's true that we set goals for where we think our students should be- I'm thinking of the comment we often make about not reaching potential...but what does that really mean? I wish we had more continuity between grades. It would be nice to be able to pick up where they left off. I love your statement to work with the learner in goal setting, but this does require attention and work to establish.  We need to build in time at the outset to teach them to be reflective and honest in order to ensure goals are realistic, specific and achievable- we have to help them assess their own strengths and weaknesses. Retrain really, as they have been told by others so often that many have little perspective on evaluating themselves and their gifts and this is quite challenging for them. Yay growth mindset!!

                                        • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                          elexus

                                          Question #1: Comment on any ideas that emerge for you based on her above distinctions laid out in chart form.

                                           

                                          The chart made me recall several articles I read in teacher's college about assessment, evaluation and grades. Students have become so focused on grades rather than what they are learning and what the next steps are. Even as a student at teacher's college, I wanted to know what my grade was not just the level I was at; I did receive valuable and pertinent feedback, but I still craved that number.

                                           

                                          As a teacher, I try to be reflective and this book raises lots of questions about how and when to provide feedback that I hope to utilize and translate into practice. I think that there needs to be more transparent communication with students about their work and what they specifically need to do to achieve those next steps without providing the answer(s), but giving them the time and tools to reach those next steps. Yet, we all know there is not enough time in teaching

                                           

                                          Lexi

                                          • Re: Week One: Question #1
                                            daylaur

                                            What stands out the most to me between the two charts is "Teacher is the sole active variable" vs. "Incorporates many decisions from many people".  I think part of the lack of success I have personally felt with providing feedback to my students is that I have been working under the assumption that all of the feedback (at least the kind that improves student learning) needs to come from me! I love that feedback as process harnesses the naturally social nature of students and develops a capacity for students to engage in providing effective feedback to eachother.  I truly find this notion freeing as an educator!